Let me tell you a little about myself and why I am interested in gamefowl. I moved out into the country here in Texas in 2007 and decided to raise chickens for eggs. This is not the first time I have raised chickens. I live in the Amazon Jungle for 20 years and had a free range flock of several hundred mix birds. So when I decided to raise some chickens here I just went to a flea market and bought anything I could get my hands on. I have discovered since then that, unlike in the Amazon where any bird can do well, not all birds thrive in the dry hot desert of Texas. This became even more clearer last year when Texas suffered the worst drought in the last 100 years. This separated the strong birds from the weak birds.

Most of my flock of 45 birds suffered and some died, but there were six birds that seem unaffected. They were some of the random birds I bought at the flea market several years ago. It is when I noticed how strong these birds were, that is where my journey began that led me to here. Why? Because as it turns out, the six hens that I am talking about are all Grey Gamefowl ( or so I have been told).

It took me a while to find out what they were, as I had never heard of gamefowl before or what they used to be used for. So when I decided to try and build a flock for free ranging purposes, I had no idea how hard (or how expensive) it was going to be to get some these birds. It has been over half a year now and I am still struggling to get started. The only reason I want these birds to for free ranging and for egg production. Feed cost have more then double in Texas as a result of the drought. I need a strong bird that can handle heat, can evade predators and can forage on grain crops I plant for them. The Grey Gamefowl seem to be the ticket that will fit the bill. Plus they are pretty to look at.

Now that you know my story, let me tell you what I need advice on. First let me tell what kind of bird I want to end up with. I have two hens that I really like. I believe they are called Buttermilk Greys.

Here are some pictures of them.




Okay, so these are the two hens that I want to breed and build a flock like them. So, I needed a Stag for this. After months of looking and a 500 mile trip I got this guy.



By this point I was aware of the fighting nature of these roosters, so I put him in a large 10'X10' cage wit the two hens. I have raised chickens for a long time and rooster will flirt with new hens and call them to food and stuff like that. This rooster did not do any of that. In fact, I have never even seen him mate with the hens. One day my 9 year old son accidentally left the door to the cage open and he got out into the general population. I have an old Rhode Island Red rooster for my normal flock of mixed breeds that only has one eye. Him and this American Grey got into a fight. Well, by the time I finally discovered that he had gotten out, I was terrified. I thought he probably killed my old red rooster. But my old Red Roster was fine and only had a few scratches on him. I could not find the Grey rooster for a while. I finally found him hiding in a dark corner of my large coop with both eyes swollen shut and half beat to death. I thought he was going to die, but he did not. But all he would do was mope around half dead. I gave the old red rooster away to try to perk his spirit up, but he has never recovered. Honestly, from what I have read about Grey Stags, this rooster does not act like one at all. He did not even act like a rooster, even before he got his tail kicked ten ways to Sunday by an old one eyed rooster.

So, I was still with out a rooster to breed my hens with. I was unable to find another stag to buy, so I decided to raise one from a chick. I discovered that you can buy hatching eggs on ebay and so I ordered two dozen (9 Regular Grey & 15 Law Grey). Only one hatched (a Law Grey). Thinking the problem was my incubation technique, I place reasonably but low bids on several other auctions hoping to win a couple. I won five and ended up with 46 eggs. Only six eggs from one seller hatch out of all those eggs. Again the only eggs to hatch were Law Greys.

So, here I am half a year older, $700 poorer, with one dud rooster and seven chicks that I have no idea what they will grow up to be. Who could have guessed this would be this hard? My only hope is that one of these chicks will be a rooster. But I have some concerns about what I am seeing develop and that is why I am here for advice. Here are my concerns. Okay, the first chick is two months old now and is obviously a hen. Here she is.



Cute bird, but she is not a buttermilk, like what I am shooting for. This concerns me because I thought Grey hens looked more like my hens. This little hen looks a lot more like what would be classified as a Black Breasted Brown Jungle Fowl. So was I tricked by this ebay seller, or is this really a Law Grey?

Next question. I have have six chicks from the next batch that are three weeks old now. Is there a way to tell if one of them is a rooster at this age? Another question is this. They are a different color as the first chick that is two months old. They look very different then the first chick did at this age. Remember, these chicks were all supposed to be Law Grey like the first one. Here are some pics:

Notice the yellow legs


Notice the green legs



So there you have it. I have invested quite a bit of time and money and I still don't know what I have. Am I going about this wrong? Does anyone here think one of these chicks is a rooster? Are they even Greys? You see where I am at? I am lost. All I want to do is build up a flock of nice buttermilk Grey hens. How hard can that be? Any help will be very much appreciated.

Youve been taken. The one pullet isint even a grey, the others are greys but not telling what kind a mix I would assume. The older grey stag needs to be killed. I would say you will more then likley end up with a stag or two out of the younger grey chicks. If its a uellow or white legged grey you might end up with some of what your calling buttermilk colored hens after mating to your best hen. But if you use a green legged cock chances are slim to none.

Your story unfortunately is not unique in the world of Gamefowl. There is more garbage than good and there are tons of peddlers selling garbage under the names of famous gamefowl breeds and there is just no way of ever knowing what you are getting, especially if you are buying from people you don't know, in different states. Just because a bird looks like a "Grey" or a "Hatch" doesn't mean a blessed thing.

I also have not been at this very long, and started out with some Cackle Hatchery OEGs because they were English "Games", well let me tell you I got sick of eating chicken after all those stags turned out to be nothing but runners. I just didn't know a darn thing about Gamefowl, primarily because there just aren't many places to get good info.

Here is my advice to you, spend a lot of time here researching and reading. You will get a feel for who the legit guys are selling quality gamefowl that are from proven lines. Only buy from folks with proven reputations of being good sellers of quality fowl. The next step is find some breeders local to you, again, proven breeders with good fowl, and visit them to learn as much as you can. Also it is always a good idea to see the birds you are buying in person. Pictures don't really show you anything but what color the bird is. There is no truer saying than the best birds you will ever have will be free, given to you by friends.

Do your research, find out who the legit guys are, make friends with some local breeders and you will drastically steepen your learning curve.

Good Luck

Also, that Grey you got is complete garbage. I would be going back to that guy for some answers, especially for that price. Any gamebird that runs from a leghorn is going right in the soup pot.

Well, unfortunately you have many many flaws to your plan. Finch chimed in already on the breed end, but there are a few things you need to understand. First, games are not a good choice for layers, as they don't lay like a layer. Ranging mature birds is impossible, unless they are like that grey rooster you have, which is clearly not a game. If you are hell bent on doing this, just go to the local flea market and buy you some bargain basement gamefowl, and pen or tie out the roosters, and cut the hens loose to do their thing. Once the chicks mature though, you are going to have to pen stuff up if you get games this time, as they will kill each other off. I personally would suggest finding another breed to use for layers, and if you really want to get some gamefowl, do your research, then just get some culls from an honest breeder, put em in their own pen with sight barriers, and take time to learn the breed before wasting a bunch of money on something that is not going to work for what you are trying to do, and just raise them for your enjoyment in small quantities.

I agree Finch. 1st Pullet is no grey. Others are grey blood, but I would assume cross bred between 2 lines of grey. Not straight bred Law. Reason being one chick looks to be light or pearl legged, and the rest appear green legged. And from what I can see, they all look to be pullets. In a couple weeks watch at the corners of the breast near the wing. My stags seem to show black breast feathers there 1st.
I have green legged Bullock greys, the original pair threw stags with a hint of brass on their shoulders, and pullets that look like these. I presume there was hatch blood infused at some point. I then added a green legged buttermilk pullet from a farm in kentucky. She threw a couple real light silver grey pullets when bred to my cock. Those pullets bred to a Stag from that buttermilk hen threw about 50% buttermilk pullets the others still looked "hatchy". The stags from the buttermilk hen were all silver backed grey.
Once a line of grey has had gene's added that darken the pullets it takes some time to breed that out.

If you can find a stag from a family of grey that has predominantly cream or buttermilk hens and breed him over your buttermilk hens, that would greatly increase your chances of producing light hens.

A lot of truth to Cuda's words as well.

Thanks for all the replies and advice guys. I have learned a lot. I kind of thought I had been taken. I may not know a lot, but I can tell when birds don't look the same. I only wish I had found this forum earlier. Oh well!

I have tried really hard to find local breeders. But if you say you are looking for American Greys around here where I live, it's like you said a forbidden word or something. The people that do have them, don't want anyone to know it. I can probably guess the reason why. I am an outsider and they don't know me, so forget me getting anything from them.

Okay, lets talk numbers here. How much should I expect to pay for a real Grey Stag? I don't need a show bird, just a good solid bird for breeding.

There is a guy on craigslist Houston selling what he calls a Manziel Grey. When I looked up some images of Manziel Grey hens, they looked identical to my buttermilk hens. Should I look for a Manziel Grey Stag?

As far as the concern about me wanting these bird for egg production, let me clarify my statement. I am sort of a naturalist when it comes to chickens. I let them do their thing. I am not looking for eggs to sell here. In the Amazon, my flock was almost feral. They lived and reproduced on their own. I collected what eggs I could find and the rest they hatched out. About once a year I had to sell off about 100 chickens just to keep their number down.

I am the same way when it comes the roosters. The young rooster would challenge the older roosters and get their tails whipped good, and they would stay in line until the older rooster would show signs of old age and then they would battle it out until one stood on top. Once the older roosters lost they would either die from their wounds or starve their selves to death. It is just nature way. The bottom line is that you always end up with the strongest rooster on top and he is the one that gets to breed with the hens. This leads to strong healthy offspring. By the way, the old one eyed rooster that beat the dud grey stag, he lost that eye when he challenged his dad "Maximus" when he was young. Here is a picture of Maximus.



I am not worried about them fighting. That is just natures way of weeding out the weak. If it becomes a problem, I will just sell off the ones I don't want and tether up the others.

One last question before I go to bed. What do you think about Cackle Hatchery?

( Quote) I am the same way when it comes the roosters. The young rooster would challenge the older roosters and get their tails whipped good, and they would stay in line until the older rooster would show signs of old age and then they would battle it out until one stood on top. Once the older roosters lost they would either die from their wounds or starve their selves to death. It is just nature way. The bottom line is that you always end up with the strongest rooster on top and he is the one that gets to breed with the hens.

This is not always true and a poor way to select. If you want good greys try to find someone on here from texas that may have what your looking for. Most good fowl wont be peddled on Craigs list or e-bay. Prices will range from 50.00 up to 300.00. Depending on how serious you are. If you would except a blinker, or one missing a toe etc.

I personally feel you don't understand gamefowl at all, and need to take the time to learn much more before diving in. If you try to just let them do their thing, you are going to end up with a lot of messed up, and dead chickens. Buying from a hatchery will get you similar birds to the grey you already have, dunghills. BTW, no disrespect intended with my comments, but I suggest you do some serious reading on this forum about what games should be, and how they need to be raised to have them.

Jungle,

If I understand what you are saying, you are making the assumption that 'Game' chickens are tough and able to provide for themselves in a free range situation. Right?

If so, then in your situation you can get a breed of chickens that has all game in their background yet generally no longer retain the 'game' element. That breed would be the Cubalaya.

Coming from the island of Cuba they thrive in HOT, HOT weather. They are very intelligent (from the game side), lay decently, have excellent tasting meat, and are BEAUTIFUL to look at on open range. In addition to these qualities, they fly very well. Young stock will often nest in trees as high as 20 feet or more.

I would strongly suggest:
1. You dump the stock you have at the local flea market
2. Never buy from there again. You don't know what you'll bring home AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT CHICKENS.
3. Order 25 Cubalaya chicks from Ideal Hatchery and 25 Cubalaya chicks from Sand Hill Preservation.

You will be much happier in the long run if you will follow my advice to the tee.